Dividend Dates.

[aviator]

Hi Mark,

Sorry to post this on Christmas day, but I'm having a bit of a problem with dividend dates:

- I own an ETF that has an ex-dividend date of 12/21/2015, and a pay date of 12/28/2015.

- This morning, 12/25/2015, I performed a Price History retrieve and a Transaction retrieve for the last week. My default quote server for historical prices is Yahoo(Historical).

- On the Data Register and Distribution Summary report, the ETF is showing dividend income (the data register is showing a dividend paid on 12/21/2015) even though the Pay Date is still in the future (12/28/2015). Is FM's handling of this correct?

- My brokerage is not yet showing the dividend transaction on their website, presumably because, technically speaking, the dividend has not yet been paid. Further, I performed a download in Quicken just to see how Intuit handles ex-dividend dates vs. pay dates. Quicken is not showing a dividend for this particular ETF. I'm guessing Quicken will download the transaction when the dividend is actually paid on 12/28/2015.

Thanks.

[Mark]

Hi aviator,

How did the dividend get recorded? Since your broker isn't showing it yet I'm guessing it was brought down from Yahoo (Historical) during a price retrieve instead of from your broker during a transaction retrieve. The Yahoo (Historical) server has the capability (in the Pro/Advisor versions) to retrieve historical dividend information from Yahoo (Historical). If you're also retrieving transactions from your broker, I would suggest turning off this option, so you don't get duplicate dividend transactions, one from Yahoo, and another from your broker. You'll see this option in the price retrieve dialog that prompts you for the date range to request. You might just delete that dividend, and wait for it to come down through the transaction retrieve from your broker.

You might use your web browser to go look up that ETF quote on Yahoo and look at the "Historical Prices" link there to see if they are showing any dividends for the 12/21 date. Yahoo may be posting these for the ex-dividend date instead of the pay date.

The feature of retrieving historical dividends from Yahoo is more useful for things you don't own, or aren't retrieving from a broker. For investments you own and retrieve from a broker, I would suggest getting all this data from your broker via the transaction retrieve. For hypothetical investments/watch lists, the ability to retrieve dividends from Yahoo (Historical) is more useful in those situations.

[aviator]

Hi Mark,

I believe you're right, the dividend transaction came down from Yahoo (Historical), not from the broker. I looked up the ETF in my browser as you suggested and Yahoo is indeed showing a dividend paid on 12/21/2015, which is the ex-dividend date and not the pay date.

I'm running the latest version of FM (everything is up to date, including quote and transaction modules), and I am running the professional version. The Price History dialogue was set to retrieve splits and dividends, both of which I have now un-checked.

Here's what's interesting: I believe the Retrieve Splits and Retrieve Dividends have always been in place -- I don't recall a time when those boxes have *not* been checked. I have several ETFs, all of which pay dividends quarterly. Looking back at their transaction history, all show a dividend reinvestment recorded on the pay date, and nothing for the ex-dividend date. This is the first time I've seen a transaction for the ex-dividend date. The transaction is rather simple -- the date (12/21/2015), the total $ amount, the type (dividend) and a memo "Retrieved Dividend: x.xxx per share." Does FM overwrite the ex-dividend date transaction with a reinvestment transaction when the transaction eventually gets downloaded from the broker?

[Mark]

Hi aviator,

Based on the format of the memo for that distribution, that confirms it was retrieved by Yahoo.

I'm not sure why you've not run into this before if those options have always been checked, and you've been retrieving historical prices. It may be that Yahoo has been using the pay date previously, and for some reason this just used the ex-div date.

When retrieving distributions from Yahoo (Historical), if there is already a dividend on that same date (no matter the amount), FM will not re-import that dividend. It considers it a duplicate, and won't import it again.

When retrieving transactions from your broker new transactions are only considered duplicates if an existing transaction matches exactly (date, value, shares, etc), so this is more restrictive than the check done when retrieving distributions from the price retrieve.

So, if you retrieved a dividend from Yahoo, and then did a broker retrieve, you may very well get duplicate transactions for that dividend, if the date/amount weren't exactly a match. However, if you do a broker retrieve, and then a historical price retrieve, and the dates matched, the Yahoo retrieve would not add a duplicate dividend.

In any event, the solution going forward is to un-check the options to retrieve dividends/splits from Yahoo (Historical) for investments that you are also retrieving from a broker.

[aviator]

Got it, going forward the Retrieve Splits and the Retrieve Dividends boxes are un-checked. (I'm unchecking the Retrieve Splits because I don't own individual stocks, and don't see that ever being needed.)

I checked Yahoo's historical prices on the web (through my browser) to see when they post dividends. For my ETFs, Yahoo shows the ex-dividend date as the pay date. But when I view the ETF transactions in FM's data register, all the dividend transactions are the actual pay date, and all are dividend re-investments, as it should be. I don't have any Yahoo (Historical) transactions in my Data Register, except for the one from 12/21/2015.

For now, I'll leave alone the ex-dividend date transaction from Yahoo (Historical) -- I won't delete it. On 12/28/2015, the dividend pay date, my broker should show a dividend transaction for this ETF, which will eventually be downloaded into FM. I'm curious what will happen when I do a Transaction Retrieve. Worst case, I'll end up with duplicate transactions, and I'll delete the ex-dividend date transaction from 12/21/2015 and leave alone the pay date dividend transaction from my broker (which I'm presuming will be dated 12/28/2015). Best case is this transaction will look like the historical ones that I'm seeing for the ETFs (only a dividend reinvestment for the pay date, and no Yahoo transaction).

My next Price Retrieve and Transaction Download will be next Friday, New Years day. I'll post my findings to let you know the outcome.

Thanks for your help.

[aviator]

Hi Mark,

This post is a followup to the problem I had with retrieving dividend data from Yahoo Historical.

This morning I downloaded December transactions from my broker. As you predicted, the dividend transaction from Yahoo Historical caused the income from my ETFs to be counted twice. The solution was to simply delete the Yahoo price entry for the ex-dividend date and, instead, use the transaction that was downloaded from my broker.

Thanks again for your help.