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Portfolio Value Chart - Transactions & Prices

Questions on using, creating, or understanding data in Fund Manager graphs.

Postby dbender54 » Thu Jan 07, 2021 8:57 pm

I've had this concern for quite a while and I'm sure its because it's either or both how I expect the chart to display vs how it's actually doing so.
This portfolio value chart is for my master portfolio (so total value of all investments)
I look at the totals before retrieving any transactions or updating prices and not the prices .
I usually retrieve new transactions first. The value of the total changes by (I presume) the value of any dividends (ie. mutual fund share dividends), dollar dividends (cash dividends) and any purchases/sales, etc., I presume, based on the prior day's prices (or in the case of new purchases or sales, the value of that transaction). I make a mental note of that value.
Then I retrieve prices. The totals change again based upon the (I assume) combined impact of price changes and the transactions I previously downloaded.
However, even if I have no transfers out to a checking account (which I do not retrieve because it's too volatile) the new total swings way more than I would expect compared to the prior day.
Example. I retrieved after market close today and there were a number of transactions. The total went up (compared to the total value prior day), but the chart showed a negative change. I retrieved transactions again later tonight and there was one dividend not picked up earlier. But the total change (shown next to the total portfolio value in the chart) went from a negative (even though the total portfolio went up compared to the prior day) to a positive amount that was far more than the 1 dividend credited to my account. The totals by sub-portfolio tie out closely to the broker, so I have confidence in the total portfolio value, but don't understand the chart updates at all. I'm looking (hoping) that the chart would reflect the total portfolio change compared to the prior day, but I never can see that in the chart, only if I manually write down the figure from prior day.

Can you explain the theory of how the values are updating?

Thank you for your help.
dbender54
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:17 pm

Postby Mark » Fri Jan 08, 2021 9:36 am

Hi dbender54,

When you retrieve transactions, that also updates prices, as provided by your broker. So, this would also be causing the change in value, and not just new transactions. Retrieving prices will update all investments, even those in sub-portfolios you're not retrieving from a broker. If you retrieve prices, that will overwrite any price that could have been recorded from your broker. If you want to figure it out more, create a Portfolio Value report, and you can see the breakdown of each investment, including the price/value. The total portfolio value is simply a sum of all the investment values, and an investment value is the number of shares owned on that date times the market price.
Thanks,
Mark
Fund Manager - Portfolio Management Software
Mark
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Posts: 9972
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Location: Chandler, AZ

Postby dbender54 » Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:12 pm

Mark wrote:Hi dbender54,

When you retrieve transactions, that also updates prices, as provided by your broker. So, this would also be causing the change in value, and not just new transactions. Retrieving prices will update all investments, even those in sub-portfolios you're not retrieving from a broker. If you retrieve prices, that will overwrite any price that could have been recorded from your broker. If you want to figure it out more, create a Portfolio Value report, and you can see the breakdown of each investment, including the price/value. The total portfolio value is simply a sum of all the investment values, and an investment value is the number of shares owned on that date times the market price.


I know all that. The chart is worthless in terms of telling me what the change from prior day was.
dbender54
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:17 pm

Postby Mark » Fri Jan 08, 2021 2:42 pm

By default, the graph legend displays the change in portfolio value between the ending graph date, and the date prior.
Thanks,
Mark
Fund Manager - Portfolio Management Software
Mark
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Posts: 9972
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ

Postby dbender54 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:54 am

I understood that's it's intent, but based on my observations on a recent day (and it's not the only one), I get somewhat different values even when only one transaction took place between the first and last transaction retrieval. Its impossible for me to validate it because I have >80 individual stock positions and >24 mutual funds across five sub-portfolios. I'd spend all day comparing prices, positions. I'll just have to resort to the old calculator, as though the total chart reflects the overall portfolio value, the change from prior day does not seem to.
Thank you.
dbender54
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:17 pm

Postby Mark » Tue Jan 12, 2021 12:46 pm

If you run a Portfolio Value report for the ending graph date, and the date prior, you should see these 2 portfolio values, and the difference will be what is displayed in parenthesis as the change in portfolio value.
Thanks,
Mark
Fund Manager - Portfolio Management Software
Mark
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9972
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ

Postby dbender54 » Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:06 pm

As I mentioned before, I ran the updates previously, well after the market closed and everything updated (transactions retrieved first, then updated prices). The “change” in portfolio value displayed on the chart. I ran it agin later that evening and the only thing that posted that didn’t retrieve previously was a cash dividend, but the “change” value with one dividend was waaay more than the prior update should have made. This is not the only time I’ve noticed this happen. I’m sure I’m wrong, but appreciate the follow up. Just not worth the time and effort to either prove or disprove what I’m seeing.
dbender54
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:17 pm

Postby dbender54 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 11:18 pm

Example: Beginning portfolio value before any transactions retrieved or price updates, from prior day: $xxx73,671.90
Change displayed on chart after transactions updated (there were none, but prices updated according to your response): <505.10>; portfolio value shows no change in total yet.
Prices then updated: New portfolio value now $xxx80,850.92 , chart shows (+0.00) net change
Actual manually computed price change $7179.02

How do you explain this?
dbender54
 
Posts: 91
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:17 pm

Postby Mark » Thu Jan 14, 2021 7:56 am

Hi dbender54,

I'm not sure I followed all those details... Did you always have the same ending graph date in all those numbers? So, it started with an "Ending" portfolio value of $xxx73,671.90 on date X, and then after you updated prices and transactions it shows an "Ending" portfolio value of $xxx80,850.92, still on date X, with a change of (0.00)? If this is correct, then your portfolio value on both date X and date X - 1 are both the same, at $xxx80,850.92. It is hard for me to debug what is happening from just this information. If I were to debug this, I would create a Portfolio Value report for date X and date X - 1 before you start the process, and after each update, see what is changing. Is your portfolio value on date X-1 getting updated? If so, then your prices or transactions are affecting that date. Just because you retrieve transactions on date X, doesn't mean that some of your prices couldn't be getting updated for date X-1. Maybe your broker is still providing a price for date X-1, and not X, like you are expecting. If you note the value for date X-1 and X before you start, and see what is changing, you can identify where the problem is happening better. I can confirm that the portfolio value change number shown in the portfolio value graph is the change between the graph's ending date, and the prior day.
Thanks,
Mark
Fund Manager - Portfolio Management Software
Mark
Site Admin
 
Posts: 9972
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 2:24 pm
Location: Chandler, AZ


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