Sorting out total growth

[Mary Kennedy]

Hi Mark. I have been noodling all the different versions of OOP cost and have a couple of questions.
(a) I want to create a chart that has (a) original expenditure, (b) current value, and (c) dividends. Most estimates of (a) subtract out all dividends. So if I paid $1000, my column would not list $1000, it would list 1000 minus all interim dividends. I want to separate the gain from the dividends in my chart. I finally resorted to "Purchases-C" instead of any of the OOP measures, but am not sure this is right either.

(b) I am attaching a portion of my draft report here in the hope that you can explain the "Gain" column, in particular the total gain for the section, which in no way summarizes the two numbers in that column.

Any comments/thoughts you have will be appreciated

[Mark]

Hi Mary Kennedy,

The "Gain" fields are your Out Of Pocket gain, meaning the ending value, plus any money received, minus what you paid. There are different versions, for different holding periods. If you want to see the Gain on the shares you currently own, use "Gain (current)", which is compatible with the "Purchases out of pocket (current)" and the "Distributed distributions (current)" fields you're showing. The "Gain (inception)" is slightly different, in that it shows the gain for all shares, including sold shares, and not just the gain on the currently owned shares. In your example below, it appears the Gain (inception) is the same as the Gain (current). If you look at the equation:

Gain = End_value + distributions - purchases

using values from your "Morgan Stanley" investment:

1303 = 17596 + 360 - 16653

[Mary Kennedy]

I'm sorry, I had two unrelated questions and shouldn't have put them into the same query. One had to do with how fields are defined and you have clarified that. The other had to do with the attached image. It shows a group of just two holdings, and in the "gains" column there is a sum that appears to have no relationship to the numbers above it. That sum is what I am still befuddled about

[Mary Kennedy]

Now I have a follow up on the Gains question. Suppose I want a gain that refers only to price, regardless of distributions. So if I bought at 10, and it's now worth 11, the gain will be 1, regardless of how long I held it or how many dividends I received in the meantime. What variable would I use for that?

[Mark]

Hi Mary Kennedy,

You are using the "Gain (inception)" field, which is the gain since the very first transaction. In your portfolio line, that is the first transaction in any investment in that portfolio, including any hidden investments. Try turning on "View / Hidden Investments/Portfolios" and see if that doesn't clarify things. I'm guessing you have some sold investments that are hidden, and not being displayed, but they have a historical gain/loss since you are asking for the gain since inception. Instead, if you change this to "Gain (current)" you will likely see what you're expecting.

If you want to see a gain/loss without considering received distributions, this is the tax basis gain/loss. For example, see the "Tax basis unrealized gain per share, Assigned Method" field. This is the "price" version, as you requested.

[Mary Kennedy]

Sorry to bother you yet again on this. I am trying to create a report that shows how much the original investment was and how much it is worth now, and the difference between these two amounts, without regard to any dividends. My current effort uses (a) Purchases-C (end) for the starting amount; then (b) End Value, for the current value, then (c) Tax Unrealized gain for the difference. This is close but doesn't always work:

Problem 1: some lines show zero for the tax unrealized gain, even though the first two numbers are not the same.

Problem 2: In one case, there was a stock split along the way so the Unrealized gain appears to be negative even though the end value is visibly larger than the original purchases value.


Suggestions?

[Mark]

Hi Mary Kennedy,

There are 2 types of costs/gain numbers: OOP and Tax. The OOP numbers are your overall break even values, which include any received distributions. The Tax numbers don't include distributions (except RofC and Account Fee types). So, if you want consistency, use one or the other, but not a mixture. Try these fields:

Tax basis, Assigned Method
Value (ending)
Tax basis unrealized gain, Assigned Method

The first field is how much you paid for the shares you own currently (ignores previously owned/sold shares). It uses the accounting method (FIFO, AVG, or Specific Lot) you have assigned to each investment.

The second field is what the currently owned shares are worth.

The third field is the gain from your basis to their current worth.

In your problem #2, make sure you have all the transactions recorded as they happened. You record things as they happened on that date (not based on future splits). You should have a stock split transaction recorded too. If you retrieved transactions splits sometimes come down as "Transfer In" or purchases at a cost of $0. You'd want to correct this to use a Split transaction.

[Mary Kennedy]

Thank you a ton! My "before" and "after" columns finally look right. However some of the "gain" columns, via the Tax unrealized gain variable, show zero for unrealized gain, even though the first two columns imply a gain or loss.


PS, is there a document or web page that has complete definitions for every variable you have developed?

[Mark]

Hi Mary Kennedy,

Can you email me, or post a screenshot of your report, showing the problem?

Yes, when you are choosing the Custom fields, there is a "Description" shown below that describes the selected field. You can also press "Help" in that dialog to get a long list and description of each field. You can also see this list in the online documentation here:

https://www.fundmanagersoftware.com/hel ... ustom.html

[Mary Kennedy]

here tis

[Mark]

Hi Mary Kennedy,

You are displaying:

Purchases out of pocket (current)
Value (ending)
Tax basis unrealized gain LT, Assigned Method

If instead, you display:

Tax basis, Assigned Method
Value (ending)
Tax basis unrealized gain, Assigned Method

you will see consistency. Notice, the first field is an OOP number, and your gain is a Tax number. Also, you have the "LT" version of the unrealized gain, which only shows the "Long Term" portion of your gain. The one I list above shows the total gain, for all terms combined.