Transaction Getting Posted to Wrong Account.

[aviator]

Hi Mark,

Every month, I have a problem with an IRA transaction posting to an account that it doesn't belong in, as well as posting to the account it does belong in. Here are the details:

1) Both accounts are IRAs, and both accounts contain various securities. Let's call these accounts his and hers.

2) There is one security that is held in both his and her accounts. Same CUSIP and same symbol. I've changed the name of the security in his account by appending his initials to the end of the name, but it has had no affect on the duplicated transaction. The security name in her account is the same as what's downloaded from the brokerage house.

3) Every month, transactions for his and her accounts get downloaded from the brokerage house. His account transactions are fine. Her account transactions have a problem with the security that is in both his and her accounts. The transaction that belongs in his account shows up in her account, along with the transaction that SHOULD be in her account.

4) I believe this problem is related to having the same security in both accounts and somehow FM is confused about which account it actually belongs in. I've tested this with Quicken and can't replicate the problem, so I'm fairly sure that the brokerage house isn't sending the additional transaction to her account.

5) Below are screen shots to help explain the problem better.

[Mark]

Hi aviator,

What does your sub-portfolio hierarchy for these 2 accounts look like? Are they separate, or could you have them nested under one-another? If you have a hierarchy like this:

Code: Select all

- Master Portfolio
  - His Account
    - Her Account

That would cause problems, as when retrieving for 'His account' FM could update any investment anywhere underneath "His Account", including in the nested sub-portfolio "Her Account".

Does the duplication happen in a single retrieve where both 'his' transaction updates and the duplication in 'her' account happens in a single retrieve, or does it update his account in one retrieve, and maybe later update her account on a subsequent retrieve? To debug this you might delete all the duplicate transactions and the original of the duplicate, and then retrieve only "His" account. What transaction updates? Now, retrieve "Her" account only. What transaction updates? Did you get the duplicate when retrieving His or Her account, or not at all?

When FM retrieves transactions for a sub-portfolio, it looks at all investments in that sub-portfolio for an investment with a matching CUSIP as reported by the broker. So, as long as you have a CUSIP recorded the name/symbol are not a factor when retrieving transactions.

[aviator]

Hi Mark,
Please see my responses below.

What does your sub-portfolio hierarchy for these 2 accounts look like? Are they separate, or could you have them nested under one-another? If you have a hierarchy like this:

Code: Select all

- Master Portfolio
  - His Account
    - Her Account

That would cause problems, as when retrieving for 'His account' FM could update any investment anywhere underneath "His Account", including in the nested sub-portfolio "Her Account".

My hierarchy looks like this:

A. Top-most level (Prices and transactions are retrieved at this level)
B0. Her Name
B1. Her IRA
B1A. Her Traditional IRA (This is the account where the duplication occurs)
B1B. Her SEP IRA
B2. Her Non-IRA
B2A. Her regular account
B2B. Her another regular account

C0. His Name
C1. His IRA (This the account where his transactions downloads properly)
C1A His Traditional IRA
C2. His Non-IRA
C2A. His regular account
C2B. His another regular account

D through F. A whole bunch of linked accounts to slice and dice the above accounts. Don't think these linked accounts are relevant to this issue.

Does the duplication happen in a single retrieve where both 'his' transaction updates and the duplication in 'her' account happens in a single retrieve, or does it update his account in one retrieve, and maybe later update her account on a subsequent retrieve?

It occurs on a single retrieve, which is done at the top-most level of the hierarchy (see A above).

To debug this you might delete all the duplicate transactions and the original of the duplicate, and then retrieve only "His" account. What transaction updates? Now, retrieve "Her" account only. What transaction updates? Did you get the duplicate when retrieving His or Her account, or not at all?

OK, I did as you requested. First I deleted the transaction from his account, then performed a transaction retrieve just for that account (with, of course, the appropriate date settings). As expected, only one transaction downloaded for his account (which is correct).

Second, in her account, I deleted both the duplicated transaction and the transaction that should have been there. I performed another transaction retrieve (again, with the appropriate date settings and only for her account). Interestingly, only the correct transaction came down (in other words, there was no duplicate). So my conclusion is that when I'm retrieving at the top-most level of the hierarchy, I'm getting the duplicate; when I'm retrieving one account at a time, no duplication occurs.

When FM retrieves transactions for a sub-portfolio, it looks at all investments in that sub-portfolio for an investment with a matching CUSIP as reported by the broker. So, as long as you have a CUSIP recorded the name/symbol are not a factor when retrieving transactions.

OK, this explains why changing the name had no affect on the duplication problem. Is there a work-around for this problem? Retrieving at the highest level of the hierarchy is a real time saver. Would prefer not having to retrieve at the account level.

As usual, thanks for your prompt reply.

[Mark]

Hi aviator,

Thanks for the information. I don't see anything wrong yet to explain/understand this problem. You should be able to retrieve at the top level. Something else must be happening we don't see yet. Maybe there is an interaction somewhere else in your link sub-portfolios that is affecting this. Or, maybe you have some transaction retrieve settings assigned somewhere at a higher level sub-portfolio where you shouldn't. For example, you want the transaction retrieve settings set to retrieve at the B1A level, but they should not be set at the B1, B0, or A level. I would suggest double checking the properties of those sub-portfolios to make sure they are set to not retrieve. Turn on "View / Hidden Investments/Portfolios" to make sure you are seeing all your sub-portfolios, including any hidden ones. Also, why are you retrieving at the C1 level, and not at the C1A level? Was that a typo? You want to set your transaction retrieve properties at your account level, not at an organizational level above an account.

Here are some other experiments you can try to debug this...

Experiment 1: Turn off transaction retrieve for all sub-portfolios except B1A and C1A. Delete all the same transactions as before (the original and duplicate transaction) and then retrieve at the top level. When you do the retrieve at the top level, make sure the status dialog says it is retrieving 2 sub-portfolios. If it is retrieving more than 2, then some other sub-portfolio is retrieving you're not aware of. If it does say you are only retrieving 2 sub-portfolios, does this single top level retrieve cause the duplication problem?

Experiment 2: Copy/Paste the A/B/C hierarchy (but not D through F) into a new portfolio file. You can copy/paste sub-portfolios using the Portfolio Editor. Select A and use "Edit / Copy", and then do a "File / Close Portfolio" and then "Edit / Paste" and "File / Save Portfolio As...". Now you have a copy of your sub-portfolio hierarchy you can trim down without affecting your original portfolio file. You can repeat this duplication experiment until you have it working and isolate when/where the problem is coming from. I believe it has something to do with your hierarchy or retrieve settings set at a higher level. You can kind of work your way back until you have nothing more than:

Code: Select all

- A. Top-most level
  - B1A. Her Traditional IRA
  - C1A His Traditional IRA

which should work without any duplication.

Also, as a tip when doing these experiments... Turn off "Options / Save Portfolio on Exit" so that if you make some changes you don't want to save you can exit FM without saving your portfolio file changes.

[aviator]

Hi Mark,

I found the problem! My top-most level (level A) was flagged to retrieve transactions. When checking the other levels for whether they were set to retrieve transactions, I somehow overlooked checking the very top of the hierarchy, and for some reason I had the Retrieve Transactions box checked. I unchecked it, deleted transactions for the date in question, and performed another retrieve. Worked flawlessly. Sorry for the confusion/madness I caused. You can disregard my comments below... I started typing them as I was problem solving but I left them here in case they can help someone else.

Also, why are you retrieving at the C1 level, and not at the C1A level? Was that a typo? You want to set your transaction retrieve properties at your account level, not at an organizational level above an account.

That was indeed a typo, sorry. That account is being retrieved at the C1A level.

Experiment 1: Turn off transaction retrieve for all sub-portfolios except B1A and C1A. Delete all the same transactions as before (the original and duplicate transaction) and then retrieve at the top level. When you do the retrieve at the top level, make sure the status dialog says it is retrieving 2 sub-portfolios. If it is retrieving more than 2, then some other sub-portfolio is retrieving you're not aware of. If it does say you are only retrieving 2 sub-portfolios, does this single top level retrieve cause the duplication problem?

OK, did as you suggested and here are my findings: I performed a transaction retrieve at the top-most level (level A above), and retrieving only the two IRA accounts, B1A and C1A. The duplicate transaction came down again. The Preview Importing Transaction screen, which appears immediately after the retrieve completes, shows the duplicate transaction. The Portfolio column on this screen, however, shows the duplicate transaction as belonging in the top-most level (level A). Since level A only contains sub-portfolios, I'm confused why FM is trying to put this duplicated transaction into that portfolio.

[Mark]

Hi aviator,

Great, glad you were able to find/fix the problem.